Thread:Stryzzar/@comment-1037137-20150313055759/@comment-1037137-20150405223726

Not a problem, Stryzzar, it's all good man.

Tell me about it, I care about interactions and character growth, without those a series inevitably suffers, especially one with a continuity as opposed to an episodic setup. There's no logic to how they assemble these scripts, events, and characters, it does seem to exploit the drama too much and in working in whatever bottom-of-the-barrel, lowbrow humor they can. It simply doesn't resemble the more sophisticated, more calculated and carefully laid out nature of the first season. Hell, even its immediate sequels had a bit more structure; sort of. Things had gotten bad before, but TDAS just doesn't care about anything other than drama and cheap humor and gags on top of its forced romance arc. The damage done to the cast here was nothing short of appalling, the line should've been drawn but this seriously crossed it. The previous seasons ought to have served as a warning against this sort of thing, you can't do this and expect a positive outcome. Other shows make a point for ensuring the consistency of their characters, and don't go to the extremes the show or this season did. This is one of the brazen disregard for character I've ever seen. I'm sure I've said that a lot and it sounds like a bit much, but it's true. Most shows simply don't go this far with a mistake this serious.

Most are inclined to agree with you there as of late. There's no argument that Gwen is very unlike her TDI self. I thought TDA and TDWT had ripped her apart pretty bad, but this is just ridiculous, they had absolutely no idea what they hoped to accomplish with Gwen in TDAS and further exploited her to the point where people are giving up on her. She's still got ardent followers, but she is now routinely mocked for everything we just discussed. No doubt it's largely because fans can't believe how far she has plunged from her glory days in TDI, where finding someone who hated Gwen was rare. Back then she was a truly sympathetic and heroic character with a complex persona, and now she has the benefits of none of those. Yeah, if Gwen's to bounce back, you have to distance her from the trio. That was a serious mistake. The connection was rushed, awkward, largely nonsensical, and it was just uncomfortable. If she were civil or kind of like "Eh" about them that's one thing, but this was just plain idiotic. ((Yeah, Cameron was much stronger in ROTI for the reasons you just said, and it's sad that he suffered for his connection to Mike and Zoey as time dragged on.)) I don't like how Gwen's being used as relationship drama bait, and frankly she's one of the LEAST logical picks for bullcrap like that. But they had no problem watering down and chipping away at her refreshing complex exterior to force her into that role. Whoever allowed that to unfold needs a serious dressing down for it. I still find her enormously unsympathetic as of late for that and for her horrific inability to solve any of her own problems, whether they're of hers or someone else's making. She never thinks before she acts and rarely has been in character in recent years. Nothing about her feels natural now. I don't know my friend, as a once devout Gwen fan, I find myself hating her a lot now. And I'm sure you all know how much I do not appreciate being brought to that point. Gwen's half the reason I got interested in the show.

Exactly, well that's one of the reasons why anyway. The other being that some just hate her so much that they actually justify how far they went with it. In a season where she was NOT the main antagonist. And in a season where up until that point they seemed to be playing a straight game in getting her back on track. Those facts just make it even less justifiable. Everything in that episode was deliberately geared toward the destruction of Courtney and everything built up around her, and for what purpose? And how far they went to do just that, nothing short of astounding and disgusting. It's one of the most deliberate derailments I've ever seen, somebody went out of their way with this to demolish one character, one that's suffered enough already and is still popular with a large fraction of fans. It's crap like this that leads them into becoming base breakers, there'd be no need for these character wars in the fandom if they weren't actively adding fuel to the fire. It's an immeasurably big offense for all of these reasons, where there were no good intentions of any kind behind it, and to defend it just disgusts me when I see it. It just reeks of bias how this played out, and it was one of the most unpleasant spectacles they ever put on. Courtney fans and haters are notoriously stubborn, those that love Courtney, regardless of their reasons will continue to defend her and feel the most sympathy for her. Her haters will continue to insist that this was simply karma, and that everyone should stop making a big deal out of her derailment, some not even seeing it at such. But this event had people on both sides in agreement that what they did was disgusting. Not everyone, but a surprising number of longtime haters were among the masses who panned this episode, or at least understood the anger directed at it. Which is nothing short of remarkable given the sharp divide in opinion. And in the grander scheme of things, hers is recognized as one of the worst derailments yet and this episode almost always listed as one of, if not the worst. We've seen it play out too much, same bullcrap every time and both sides, fans and haters alike, are tiring of it. The love and hate for Courtney has not really lessened on either side, but the frustration with what they keep doing to her has definitely increased on both sides.

This entire season should be the guidebook for what not to do with your series. Would make sense to view as that, do you agree? I mean the amount of missteps and bad decisions in this are astronomical. I would like more insight into their lackluster editing process, if there even is one practiced at all. And what role Mr. McGurrin has played in that. I'm already convinced that he's the last person they should entrust anymore finales with. If RR's finale blows, he'll be the one singled out for that. And if he really has that much influence, well that needs to be addressed for sure.

Yup. No standard in quality at all to be found here. And if they weren't passionate about it, then they should not have made it. I would be very happy if All-Stars was never aired. What they needed to do was wait until they had an ironclad script that could be serviceable to the majority, everything that this final product ultimately was not.

Thanks man, I appreciate that a lot. Just feel it's an appropriate time and place to speak up about a matter I consider important and one others likewise do, and by the looks of it quite a few. I'm willing to be the one to speak up about this one as I feel passionately about it, and is there's even a chance of preventing this from ever happening again, then I am going to do as best as I possibly can. So far we are doing good, and I hope we can continue that effort depending on what follows next now that we've made the first step. The Trinity is one of the blackest scars on the show, not just because of Zoke but because of so many other offenses, this one being one of the most glaring by far. I would like to consider it non-canon too, but that's hard to do seeing how it still stands as such, which I'm not content with. I'm not content that something of such bad taste got by. I'm still very much bothered and mad that it happened, that we are forced to live with it for the time being. They should not have left us with that, that was wrong of them. And they can blame an enormous portion of the hate against TDAS on these three episodes, that's something they ought not to forget. It's critical that this never happen again. That's why I'm carrying on in the hopes that maybe somehow, a repeat of this can from now on be prevented. It's completely worth the effort if it means any hope of avoiding that.