Forum:Removal of Council Vote

Hey everyone. Recently, there have been many complaints by several users about the state of our wiki under council and our wiki being a dictatorship. I personally believe that many problems on this wiki would be solved by the removal of Council, and giving more people on the wiki a say. I also believe that this would help to solve the appearance that our wiki is a "dictatorship" by the other wikis and even some of our past users. I know that many other wikis use this system, and they find it very effective. If other wikis can deal without a council, why can't we? With the growing number of people joining our wiki and IRC, I feel we need a more open, democratic government, which will occur if the removal of council occurs. I have many ideas as of what to do for possible promotions and demotions, such as following this plan, which many users already have seems to like. If this plan doesn't get passed, I still believe we need major revamping of the rules and government. Thank you for your time and please note, this is the OFFICIAL vote page. ~ RPs & Writes! ♪  Dakota    ♫  Talks & Edits!  19:49, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

All accounts made after today will not be allowed to vote.

Support

 * 1) I fully support this idea, as I submitted it. :P ~ RPs & Writes!  ♪   Dakota    ♫  Talks & Edits!  19:49, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) Completely agreed.  TDA15  talks and  edits 19:53, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) I agree with this, and also the whole "Lets vote in council" thing is bad!---zzzzzz OH WHAT? You want to talk to me? What ever... (Diary of a Wimpy Kid Wiki ADMIN) 19:53, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mhm, agreed with Dakota. -- Owenandheatherfan  Is  [[File:La.gif]]  For Coco!  19:58, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) No longer needed. Council used to be needed, now it is obsolete. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe!  Master of epic pwnage 20:00, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) Having equal power among users has worked great on other wikis. (Ex. Total Drama Island Fanfiction wiki) Having equal power among users prevents jealousy from occuring, because if everyone is equal they have nothing to complain about. However, I know of no other wiki which has used a council (Though there is one, I'm pretty sure) So unless you can find the wiki that has a council and no complaints, I suggest just abolishing the council and just making everyone equal . -- Spotted at the hottest shows, interview on Charlie Rose,  they all want a piece of you!  20:10, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) ^ Cause baby you're a firework Really you are Oh, no... 20:17, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 4) I feel that this wiki will be better off without the council. GG (talk) 21:02, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 5) I agree with GG. —Random Ranaun (Talk to me! ) 21:02, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 6) Agreed with all of the above. Council is just way too secretive on stuff. And if we even attempt to make it public. I still don't think it would be a good idea; when there can always be wiki-wide votes. Now as far as promotions go. I think people should nominate who they want promoted to admins, rollbacks, etc. This all needs to stop. Also, I think that no other wiki uses a Council system. ~ numbuh3 ♥Knd x Glee 21:30, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 7) What everyone else said. --W H  (talk) 23:19, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 8) Agreed. -- Webkinz Mania  Talk  Blogs  Contributions  Editcount  23:26, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 9) Support - Per everyone --Sp3cSprechen 23:46, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10) Per all. Cpl.Bohater 00:09, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11) As much as I am okay with Council, I think we can live without it. Let's just see how it goes, ok? :) -- Look, Wings!  Yes Gwen, wings are way more important than the talk you are having now.  01:07, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * 12) Agree. Bruno is my name!   Talk!   My editcount!  02:21, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * 13) Agree. Total Drama Revenge 23:55, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 14) ^ -- Ale-Alejandro was Born This Way 21:10, June 19, 2011 (UTC) (Yes, I did just leave one character and my signature. -w-)
 * 15) Whatever Webkinz Mania says. -- UrosBjedov 10:38, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 16) AgreeMikTDI 12:31, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 17) Dramatic Kracko 13:55, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 18) The wiki can absolutely go on fine, if not fantastically, without a council. Why? Well, this is the only wiki I know of with such a way of managing things, and it's clearly not working. Losing the council doesn't mean the wiki will automatically fall into more madness, imo. A new system is long-overdue, and if we stand together as a wiki we can make a new way to manage everything. -- BobNewbie  ∞(Talk)∞  12:15, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 19) I agree with Bob and N3.   ♥    ~    ★    ~   ☾  Mikey  ☽ *~talk*~  ♥  *~Edits*~ 01:58, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) I do not believe it's needed to remove council. It's a privelege to get to vote/discuss council things, and users need to be motivated to work their way up there. Also, council kinda holds the wiki together. My two cents. Jaxswim 19:53, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) * is in the minority* Council can get a little crazy sometimes, but I still think it's needed in some form. I'm all for giving users more input and decision-making, but I still think there should be some form of higher government. ~ Kgman04!  ♪ Talk! ♫ Contribs! 20:32, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) It's still needed in some form, like KG said. I'm all for letting the users watch and comment on the meetings, because that's what I think should be done instead of Council ending. ~ CD-TDA   talks a nd contributes!  ♔ 20:36, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 4) All of the above. I was totally for removing Council when I was banned, but now I feel like all it needs is a few adjustments. Removing it altogether isn't necessary; we need some form of government, and I feel like a collaborative one is good. --<font color="#ff0000">TDIFan13 (<font color="#4b0082">My Talk and<font color="#4b0082">My Contributions! )20:49, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 5) Agreed. Council shouldn't go all together, we need some system here. -- XoTulleMorXo  ♥talk  and  contributions♥  20:51, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 6) Youd think i would want to get rid of the thing that got me demoted, well I do believe it could be run differently, i believe that it should be open for all users, at least for all users to watch, getting rid of it all together would leave us without a system Bridgette_dj10  im winning this timeee  21:02, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 7) Agreed with everything above. I've supported having users watch Council for a long time, and clearly Council's going away, but whatever. I just hope the people who voted "Support" know what to do after Council's gone. <font color="#556B2F">Neko-naito <font color="#8A2BE2">"It's a fact and scientific <font color="#8A2BE2">that I'm still Nekorific!" 21:06, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 8) I don't want to see this wiki in even greater chaos than it is right now. Why don't we just make Council public, that'd make things much easier. I suggest this. If you want every single Wiki-wide vote to end up like the Freehugs Demotion page, then feel free to ignore my comment.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 21:14, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 9) Agrred with Mygeto <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(skyblue), to(indianred)); border:2px ridge #3D5229;"> Aimers talk 21:44, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10) Replace council with something otherwise the wiki will turn into a nuthouse O.o *~*~ishni*~*~talk 02:38, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11) Most users who can't vote on things are just upset that they don't have any power IMO. Every rollback and admin earned their position by hard work and dedication to the Wiki. That's why the council exists. And that's why they've earned the right to make decisions. I don't think that we should do away with council entirely, because Wiki-wide votes would eventually get chaotic, and unfair if users without any edits voted. I think that users should be able to watch the council, but not have power over it unless they put themselves in a position to earn that power through hard work. If you allow this, it'll be as it is now where several users who have done absolutely nothing for the Wiki get a say. And that's not fair to the hard workers. So I say, fix council. Don't get rid of it.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 23:33, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 12) Removing council is inviting anarchy. The main reason we had it implemented in the first place is because we needed experienced users who could utilise their experience in order to help make the decisions that would affect the wiki. If we remove council... our decisions would be made by a vast majority of people who probably have no experience and there would be a massive degree of bias as n00bs would continually interfer with it and elections would all be made based on how popular someone is. Also... where would the motive be if you cant' advance in the wiki to a position of power? Honestly guys REMOVING COUNCIL IS INVITING MADNESS AND BIAS! And like the Cartoon said, do we really want the fate of the wiki to rest in the hands of inexperienced n00bs that build the majority? Honestly the logical solution would to at least have some ambassador of the regular users to put forth ideas to council. In the end, maye a few changes should be implemented, but removing council is just not an option!!! Silverspark is   Was and forever will be  Awesomer than thou! 05:52, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * 13) Agreed with all the above. TDAddict  - You know who he is,  and don't forget it. 12:35, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 14) Like I said in the other forum, I don't tihnk the problem is the existence of Council itself, but rather in how accessible it currently is to the wiki community as a whole. If we make Council a more interactive and open forum of discussion amongst non-staff users, it would probably appease most of those who are calling for its removal. Having said that though, I'm open to the idea of removing it altogether. The nagging question, though, is how? How do we make that transition from a Council-led wiki to a Council-less wiki? I have yet to hear any details on that at all. ~ <font face="Gill Sans MT"> ♥ Jammy  ♥ talk 14:44, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 15) The problem is not the concept of the Council itself - it's all about how it's being run. By working together, a solution can be formulated and the wiki will be run ever-more efficiently. By destroying the Council, that would be an invitation to disaster. There's no solution in the destruction of the Council - we'd be left with even more problems than before because everything would have to be rebuilt from the ground up, and there's no guarantee it would be a better alternative. From my experience of being here, I know for the most part that our Council members have put a lot of work and effort into this wiki to get to where they are now, and I'd say people who work this hard have earned the right to preside over the wiki to maintain its quality. We can work together to fix the kinks in the system for the benefit of everyone, but dissolving the group of people who've proved themselves capable of maintaining this place just isn't the option anyone should choose if they want conditions improved around here. <font color="#213757">~ ♦Shinneth ♦ (<font color="#C55FC9">Speak ~ ♪ ) <font color="#422C56">(See ~ ♫) 20:33, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * 16) Agreed with everything. I WANT TO BE GROVE OR ELLIOT IN TDR! AHHH! 17:43, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * 17) EVERYONE, hear me out right now. This is the most ridiculous vote I've ever seen, and the answer should be a no-brainer. All those who Support this need to seriously reconsider this right now. Don't you understand? If you remove Council, you'll be destroying this Wiki, and enjoying it and celebrating it. MANY other Wikis are run by certain groups of higher-ranking users, such as admins, rollbacks, and bureaucrats. Not a lot of Wikis are run "by the people," with wiki-wide votes deciding EVERYTHING. Those that do, fail hard. Council has never been biased, and never will be. Members of Council do so much work for you non-Council users, such as dealing with vandals, removing terrible images, fixing horrible edits on certain pages, and THIS is how you repay them? SERIOUSLY. Some of you should try to be an admin for a week, and see how you like handling all of the work that they do. Council is one of the best things that's happened to this Wiki. Remove it now, and you'll all regret it. Either you'll regret it, or within a few days, there'll be another forum created to vote on bringing it back, crawling back to them on your knees. You really need to change your minds. I'm not just saying this because I'm a member of Council; I'm saying this as a user of this Wiki. Council keeps things neat, organized, safe, and under control. Wiki-wide votes will be crazy, spontaneous, all over the place, and out of order. Take my word for it. I've seen some bad Wikis run "by the people." It's not a pretty sight. --"Ezekiel! What's up, man?" "I think I see a bird!" [[Image:CFWU-15.png|100px]] 00:01, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * 18) Ultimately, we do need some way to determine the things that are done on the wiki in a form like this, or else we wouldn't know what to do. Say council did end up getting deleted. Then we wouldn't know what to do. How would we decide how someone would get banned? Unless someone came up with a BRILLIANT idea, we would be heading for downfall. It definitely needs improvement, but that can be worked on. I feel that we should try solving the problem before giving up. If things don't work out after adjustments are made, then we can decide if it needs to be deleted. But for now it should be left on the wiki to be improved, we shouldn't be giving up just yet. missy  free your glee  02:58, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Comments
Did the admins even approve of this? -- XoTulleMorXo  ♥talk  and  contributions♥  20:23, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter a toss. I don't care whether the admins approve of it or not. --Callofduty4 23:26, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, it does matter a toss. Admins are admins for a reason, bro. They decide things like this. If admins hadn't approved of it, it would be removed ASAP. --"Ezekiel! What's up, man?" "I think I see a bird!" [[Image:CFWU-15.png|100px]] 00:59, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

From what I've been told, yeah. 20:24, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I brought it up to council yesterday. ~ <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(aqua), to(red)); border:4px ridge #black;">RPs & Writes! ♪  <font face="Samdan">Dakota    ♫  Talks & Edits!  20:27, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's better than having Council vote on whether or not to dissolve itself, right?  TDA15  talks and  edits 20:32, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Poli, if you quit, I don't see why you're voting. I think if you're not going to come back you shouldn't impact the future of a community you don't plan to be a part of. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 20:39, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

^ This. <font color="#600000">~ Kgman04! ♪ <font color="#A00000">Talk! ♫ <font color="#600000">Contribs! 20:48, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I agree. If you're going to continue voting in everything and trying to affect the future of the wiki, then you really didn't quit. --<font color="#ff0000">TDIFan13 (<font color="#4b0082">My Talk and<font color="#4b0082">My Contributions! )20:48, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Must have been a ragequit. -- XoTulleMorXo  ♥talk  and  contributions♥  20:50, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

^ I wouldn't be suprised if it was, it's happened quite a few times.  TDA15  talks and  edits 20:52, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I love her and all, but if she wants no part of the community why would she care what happens to it? Bridgette_dj10 im winning this timeee  20:57, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

^ Well this was one of the main reasons Poli quit, so why shouldn't she be able to vote? -- Look, Wings!  Yes Gwen, wings are way more important than the talk you are having now.  20:58, June 18, 2011 (UTC

Because she already quit; she's making decisions that's going to impact the future of the wiki that she wants nothing to do with. If you quit, you don't want to be on the wiki anymore, so why is she here? --<font color="#ff0000">TDIFan13 (<font color="#4b0082">My Talk and<font color="#4b0082">My Contributions! )20:59, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

And people wonder how I can hate the Wiki's environment. ~ Poli ~  Count!  Watch!  Talk! 21:01, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

If you hate it so much, then why are you still here? :|  TDA15  talks and  edits 21:03, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. Oddly, you're still openly participating in discussions even though you "quit". It's like you returned. When I returned, you accused me of trying to get sympathy; I wouldn't be surprised if you announced tomorrow that you're stopping your resignation. --<font color="#ff0000">TDIFan13 (<font color="#4b0082">My Talk and<font color="#4b0082">My Contributions! )21:05, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Eh. Boredom. And why do you even care? @TDA15 ~ Poli ~  Count!  Watch!  Talk! 21:07, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Same reason everyone else is questioning your alleged "quitting."  TDA15  talks and  edits 21:10, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean to start a whole conversation about it. I just wanted to know why Poli kept voting even though she quit is all. If she's actually planning to come back, that's fine. I was just curious is all. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 21:08, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Well, then let her come back. But for someone who's allegedly "quit", she sure is around here a lot. --<font color="#ff0000">TDIFan13 (<font color="#4b0082">My Talk and<font color="#4b0082">My Contributions! )21:09, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Fine, since it apparently hurts you so much that I'm here, Ryan, I'll be sure to go. The truth is, I really don't care anymore. By the way, this is an example of being an "uptight busybody." Just a thought. ~ Poli ~  Count!  Watch!  Talk! 21:12, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Again, if you don't care, why are you here? --<font color="#ff0000">TDIFan13 (<font color="#4b0082">My Talk and<font color="#4b0082">My Contributions! )21:14, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

^ I was just about to say the same thing.  TDA15  talks and  edits 21:15, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

And this is the perfect example on how most wiki-wide votes are going to turn out in the future.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 21:16, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Mygeto, this isn't about the vote. Besides, things like this won't happen every time.  TDA15  talks and  edits 21:19, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

^ Mhm. This is just about something else, not about the vote. -- XoTulleMorXo  ♥talk  and  contributions♥  21:22, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Still a very unnecessary argument, the kind that I see pop up often on Wiki-wide votes that concern issues like this.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 21:24, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

The argument is calmed down now, so there is no problem, at the moment. -- XoTulleMorXo  ♥talk  and  contributions♥  21:32, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really find it fair that users who are not a part of this wiki are voting on this o.o This just brings up another5 issue of wiki-wide votes, I could easily just go and bring in users from the camps wiki to vote aong on a certain side. It happened with the FH demotion vote, why not for all o.o Just a thought perhaps... <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(skyblue), to(indianred)); border:2px ridge #3D5229;"> Aimers talk 21:43, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Anyone who votes is clearly a part of this wiki. You don't need to be a member of the exclusive and ever-corrupt Council to be a member of the wiki. --Callofduty4 23:26, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is contributing nothing to a wiki really qualify as being apart of it?-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 23:30, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mygeto's absoluetely right. And, "with all due respect," Callofduty, your comment is so wrong and ridiculous that I'm laughing right now. So you're saying that some random, 5-year-old kid user from the Backyardigans Wiki could come and vote here right now, and he'd be a member of the community? A part of this particular Wiki? You are certainly not one to talk, seeing as how you are not a regular member of this Wiki, and all you do come here for is to bash, criticize, and insult us, and tell us how to run our Wiki, and then tell us that we're the ones who need to be watched and punished. --"Ezekiel! What's up, man?" "I think I see a bird!" [[Image:CFWU-15.png|100px]] 01:02, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Guys, how do we fix council if there are more nos than yes'. -- Webkinz Mania  Talk  Blogs  Contributions  Editcount  23:37, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

''The Council is a shady membership of users who strive to only benefit themselves. I've seen unfair bannings, unfair demotions, the lot. Let everyone have a say on things. I want to see proof that the Council is a good way to run the wiki, because if there are forums up to remove it, then it clearly isn't. --Callofduty4 23:22, June 18, 2011 (UTC)'' ~ Okay Tails I love you and all, but you could not be any more wrong. At this point, a lot of assumptions are being made. If we were only trying to benefit ourselves, I swear things would be MUCH worse than they are now. In fact, I believe that a lot of problems that are occurring now because of users not in council but certain others. Honestly, this is all one big assumption.... o.o <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(skyblue), to(indianred)); border:2px ridge #3D5229;"> Aimers talk 23:50, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

All you guys do what you want, but I would love to see this wiki at the end of 2012 once Total Drama is over, then all of you guys will be bored and have no reason to add new stuff to this wiki. If the council doesn't end now, it will sure end then once Total Drama is over. Everyone will just leave since they will find nothing to do then Total Drama Revenge 00:04, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

A coo is a nice change of paceAmphdrew 03:26, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

From what I'm seeing. It looks like no more Council. How long is this vote anyway? ~ numbuh3 ♥Knd x Glee 04:09, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

It's not over, yet. -- XoTulleMorXo  ♥talk  and  contributions♥  04:19, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, but I meant when will it end. ~ numbuh3 ♥Knd x Glee 04:24, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

I really hate it when both sides have good arguments. >_< I really can't decide. Although if I had to lean towards one, it would be oppose. I just can't help but imagine issues becoming even more insane if voting power was equal amongst ''everyone. ''But then again...we should at least see how this would work if wiki-wide votes came through....gah! I don't know. Gleek For  Theater  05:33, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

I have some questions:


 * 1) When's lunch?
 * 2) When will the vote end?
 * 3) If it has more no's than yes', how will we "fix it"?
 * 4) Do the opposes really want council to still continue, when we can possibly do wiki-wide votes?
 * 5) Can I have cake?

-- Webkinz Mania  Talk  Blogs  Contributions  Editcount  13:09, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

...lol on #5! @WM I hope the cake is cheesecake. Anyway, idk when the vote ends. :p ~ numbuh3 ♥Knd x Glee 13:19, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

I want you guys to pay attention to some of the users are voting for "Support." Some of them, I've never seen on the Wiki except the IRC when they're complaining about this exact rule. If you open Wiki-wide voting, everything is going to come apart. Eventually you'll realize that any user can invite their friends to come and vote on an issue regardless of their contributions to the Wiki. At that point, you'll think that we can just add a mainspace edit requirement. But guess what? Then there won't be any council!!!! And we won't be able to change ANYTHING without a chaotic Wiki-wide vote which will go on for who-knows-how-long? I'm begging some of you guys to switch to support since half of the votes on the support side aren't fair.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 13:37, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

@The Cartoon - Really, this is just a wiki, just calm down, you take this place to seriously since this place is really all you got. It's just a wiki, not a country. It's a place to have fun and pretty much the only thing that we do is write articles and fix them if someone messes them up, really anyone can do that. Don't take this place as a big deal, the wiki is nothing more than a bunch of articles that are controlled by a bunch of kids that 99% of the population don't even know that Total Drama exists. Really, once all of you guys get REAL jobs, you guys won't ever care about this wiki anymore. Face it, you are only here since you have nothing better to do for now. And this is not an offensive comment, this is a reality comment. I would love to see all of those admins realise that they are nothing more than a bunch of geeks that can't get off of the computer all day trying to be "active" on this wiki. And really, this wiki is just a place so all of the Total Drama fans can come every once and often to talk to their friends about the show. That's what this wiki is about, to have fun. If you really want to read all of those articles, then that's what wikipedia is about. But this place this is just a big forum. And well what do I know. I only been here a couple of weeks, if you think I am wrong then go ahead and do what you want. You now what, I really agree with this whole blog now, the council is just stupid, and that's why its gonna go Total Drama Revenge 20:49, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

I'm the first person to say that it's just a website and we need to stop taking things so seriously. I oppose the removal of council for the reason that will cause more pointless drama.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 13:32, June 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, where's the proof that will happen? --Callofduty4 17:57, June 20, 2011 (UTC)

Well it looks like the removal of council is actually going into effect without any sort of replacement. So I'll have all the proof that I need with time.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 00:30, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

You know what I love? How all of the users opposing Council are all "Without Council, there'd be no authority." If you actually look at the outcome, we still have admins, and last I checked, admins are authorities. And if a wiki-wide vote goes into chaos, just deal with it. This is the thing, they just don't want to deal with problems on the wiki. Yet keeping Council around just causes more problems. And like TC said, this is a wiki. Not a freakinf country, state, or whatever. The fact that we even have to discuss something with an obvious answer is just sad.  TDA15  talks and  edits 00:39, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Removing Council is technically just making us admins even more powerful. So..., we'll just see where that goes.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 00:39, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * With everyone having a say, admins wouldn't be able to "become more powerful." If they do get an increase in power and abuse it, they'll just cause corruption and we'll all turn against them. It's all up to them whether or not they want to take that risk.  TDA15  talks and  edits 00:46, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Council was a power restriction. If an admin wanted something done, even at the request of a regular user, they'd have to bring it to Council, which could end up in a long process. And now, without Council, we can pretty much do anything without anybody else's consent. And by the way, it'd be pretty difficult to have a wiki-wide vote for every single issue, especially if each lasts for about a week. But whatevs, I really wanna see how this plays out, and what people plan to do when this is all over.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 01:00, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * You can think that, but remember: If an admin does try and step out of line, they'll just cause an uproar, and everything will go into mass chaos. Besides, there's more than one admin, they can just set them straight. If all the admins somehow are out of line, then they've got a lot to deal with. Oh that's right, they don't want to deal with it. That's why Council is still around to keep uprisings from happening. It's not exactly the best plan in the world, seeing as Council's causing a heckload of controversy. It's only a matter of time 'till everyone here loses it.  TDA15  talks and  edits 01:05, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * With the inevitable bias that comes with wiki-wide votes that concern issues like that, I'm pretty sure that there isn't going to be an unanimous agreement that can really stop it.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 01:10, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * There's bias in both situations, Council and No Council. There's no avoiding it.  TDA15  talks and  edits 01:13, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * T'is true. But with the large masses seen in Wiki-Wide votes, the bias would most likely be larger and even worse. And that really didn't answer my previous concern, as in what would happen if an admin gets too out of control.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 01:20, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * We've done that before. Just gang up on them until they finally reach breaking point. 'Tis what we always to. :p  TDA15  talks and  edits 01:51, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Great to know that that is a reoccurring tactic used on this wiki.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 02:05, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Mygeto brings up a good (and disturbing) point. Council provides a means to keep the powers and intentions of individual admins in check. The last thing I want to see on this wiki is seeing an individual admin consolidate his or her power and become the "boss" of this place, whether or not such a distinction would be explicit or merely implied. ~ <font face="Gill Sans MT"> ♥ Jammy  ♥ talk 14:55, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

@TDA15. I'm not concerned with the amount of authority. I just know that there's going to be a much bigger miscommunication between the members and staff without a council. There will be occasions where the staff will have to make decisions without consent of the entire Wiki, and that'll cause a problem. There were also be occasions where the Wiki-wide vote proves to be unfair. The admins will be forced to have more power because of this, as Mygeto said. Of course, I could be completely wrong. So we'll see what happens. I hope I'm wrong.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 00:43, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Council doesn't even take the wiki's consent into consideration. Not much of a difference there.  TDA15  talks and  edits 00:47, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Awesome I dissagree with that comment :| ON A SIDE NOTE: I love your council idea in that blog :| <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(skyblue), to(indianred)); border:2px ridge #3D5229;"> Aimers talk 00:49, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. You know, I really should remove the "Mygeto came up with this" thing. Because...it might not have been Fedora, and I got the idea from his comment about having users watch Council. So...yeah. A lot of credit wasted. -w-  TDA15  talks and  edits 00:53, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

You know what? I hope the people that simply wrote an "agreed" in the support section are aware of what the consequences will be if council is removed. You really think that this will give everyone more freedom of speech and power? Think again. As Zaktan said "Power divided into too many pieces is no longer worth having. It would be as though your body had split into a billion pieces. You would be intact, but not whole." Don't you see? The whole system of operating will degenerate into complete madness, bias and utter chaos! think guys, is this the future you really want? IS IT???

Oh and awesome the council does in fact take the wiki's consent into consideration. I mean, we made a notoion to make some promotions a few weeks back and its done us a lot of good. Silverspark is  Was and forever will be  Awesomer than thou! 07:38, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

^ Probably the most logical thing I've seen all week.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 11:35, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Mygeto. It would also be wise to say that you too have been puting forward a well reasoned and logical arguement as well. Silverspark is  Was and forever will be  Awesomer than thou! 11:42, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Instead of having a government run this wiki, we could still have meetings on ideas for running this wiki. But, these meetings will involve users, admins, rollbacks, b-crats, etc... because everyone has a voice, not the same 6-7/15 users that keep showing up to council whenever we hold a meeting. This is a new way of having more ideas and it will be more fun. Guys, just chill, council is one of the reasons why this wiki is going into the chaotic state were going threw right now. We have 10 admins, 8 rollbacks, 6 b-crats, and a lot of trusted users that still follow the rules. Here's the thing, if council stays, I want users and b-crats to be able to come in and watch, comment and vote during the meeting because on the council page, it says that "The council members may invite some trusted users without power to join." However, whenever I say I'm going to invite users, I'm asked "What!?" or "Why are you doing that?" It says it right there. In other words, I'm going to invite users to our council meetings because it says it right there. So basically, I rest mah case.


 * We can't allow "trusted users" to be chosen by ourselves to be in Council, as it'll probably have bias and will lead to an uproar by users who weren't chosen. We've been saying this for a while now, and it's either we let all the users visit Council, or let none of them. And it seems as if many of Council want to make it public.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 22:57, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * :It says it right there on the council page, so, I "may" invite users to watch. Already have someone in mind.

Until I hear some actual details on how a post-Council wiki would operate, I'm opposed to its removal. Remember, just because it's fine for some wikis doesn't mean that it's fine for all. This wiki is one of the busiest and most-active wikis hosted on Wikia, after all. ~ <font face="Gill Sans MT"> ♥ Jammy  ♥ talk 14:47, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I honestly think that more than half of the supporting votes don't even have any sort of plan to settle things besides with Wiki-wide votes, which won't solve every single problem.-- <font color="MediumBlue">Mygeto <font color="RoyalBlue">likes to <font color="Red">STEAL <font color="DodgerBlue">your edits 22:57, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

I'm 100 percent for bringing in users into council. I just believe destroying it completley is a huge mistake. once again, Awesome/Mygeto's idea on the new council is excellent....I mean Genius <span style="background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, right top, from(skyblue), to(indianred)); border:2px ridge #3D5229;"> Aimers talk 15:11, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Here's my thoughts: -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 23:12, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) If council is removed, we will go to the system where we decide promotions/changes to the wiki by a wiki-wide vote. In terms of bans, I think we have to overhaul the set ban lengths, I think admins are capable of common sense. After each ban, I see admins saying "That's the rule, sorry." From what I've seen, few of them actually like the lengths set. Admins can use common sense. Demotions, I honestly don't think we need demotions. All the people in power, I don't see any of them having a negative impact. Some are inactive, but that isn't hurting anybody.
 * 2) If council isn't removed, I think we need reform and a new system of handling it. What I'd like to see is either: A) Some responsible users are allowed to join, picked by non-council members, B) all are allowed to view council, but we make it so only council members with Voice can talk, or C) we have the entire community vote on 9 or 11 users, Rollbacks, and admins to make up the council, and they take over.

Fully agreed. After, 30 votes for a side, does the vote end, Nalyd? -- Webkinz Mania  Talk  Blogs  Contributions  Editcount  23:14, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd say that's fair, but no specific limit was set, so I can't confirm it. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe!  Master of epic pwnage 23:29, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Council doesn't need to go - the rules just need to be changed. But, if Council is removed, I'm soo totally gonna laugh if in a few months time, people make another forum to get it back running xD *~*~ishni*~*~talk 02:40, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well you put that pretty well. You know what? Maybe we should experiment a little. What if we temporarily disbanded council and see how everyone reacts. That will show them what the consequences will be. Silverspark is   Was and forever will be  Awesomer than thou! 08:21, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

It bugs me when people say that without council, everything's gonna go bad. You don't know that. There's no way you could possibly know that. You can think that'll happen, but don't go saying it like it's fact. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 12:56, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

My biggest problem with this, is that aside from Nayld, no one has really offered a plan as to what's going to happen when the council is gone. I'm pretty sure that the users who voted support all have a different mindset about what they actually want. Some of them want complete freedom with admins left virtually powerless and some of them want restrictions. But that isn't specified. Before this is put into effect (and it will be), we need to make sure that there's a general understanding of what's going to happen. It's easy to say "Let's get rid of council" but there need to be some restrictions. I suggest that there be an edit requirement for voting.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 13:32, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

I would like Wiki wide votes. -- Webkinz Mania  Talk  Blogs  Contributions  Editcount  19:32, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah Webkinz, I thought that was the general consensus. :P Well I took another look at what Mikey said. Reading it through the second time, it does make more sense to me. And I like the system of promotions on the CoD Wiki. I'm a little more optimistic that this could work, and it looks like it will happen so there's no use fighting it. But I still do think that it'd be reasonable to ask for a small edit count, even if it's only 25. Not even mainspace. That'd prevent people bringing their friends in to vote on certain issues.  TC  Not just any cartoon. 20:29, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

''It bugs me when people say that without council, everything's gonna go bad. You don't know that. There's no way you could possibly know that. You can think that'll happen, but don't go saying it like it's fact. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 12:56, June 22, 2011 (UTC) ''- aww Nalleh DDDx What I meant was you need SOME kind of system here to manage all the users we have. Whether it's Council or something else that gives that order. I don't support a tyrannical and rigid set of rules as much as I don't support a totally carefree wiki that does whatever it wants. If we had that, peeps would go around doing whatever they liked and fights would ensue. If we had a rigid set of rules, people would leave and call us elitist as they are doing on other wikis now. I say we need a BALANCE - give users the freedom to have fun on the wiki without being too overbearing BUT still have some order in this place. I believe Council can create this balance if it weren't so uptight and secretive all the time. If you have a better suggestion of how to maintain order on the wiki without it spiralling into chaos on either sides of the extremes spectrum then by all means suggest it. As for now, based on the above info I just presented to you, my vote to remove council is an Oppose. *~*~ishni*~*~talk 12:02, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

We will have a system. We'll be adopting the system used by almost (if not all) other wikis. It wouldn't be a system where people do whatever they want. The important things council would normally vote on will be put on a public forum for people to vote on. Admins will still be in charge of banning, but instead of using a set length for each ban (which always results in admins apologizing like mad cause even they know how ridiculous they are) admins would be expected to have common sense and good judgement when banning. And your post mostly supported what I said, people have the paranoid fear that if council is removed everything will immediately go into madness. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 12:12, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe the wiki will go into madness if Council is removed per se. My concern was if Council is removed and some other system didn't take its place, things will go mad due to lack of an order system. If all the other wikis are using this new system why didn't we to begin with? O.o I believe this new system will be good for all the users so implement it right away xDDD I also have one suggestion - let the users know the rules of the wiki and make it crystal clear. Write down all unwritten rules that you may be aware of but other users learn through mistake and banning. Change some rules if you think they're too severe. However, the less rules you have the less overbearing it is to the other users and the easier they remember them (i.e upto 5 rules that encompass the do's and don'ts of the wiki). :S *~*~ishni*~*~talk 12:26, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

If you want the system implemented, then you need to support the removal of council. The reason we used council in the beginning, almost two years ago was because at the time it was a good idea. Now it's time to go to a new system. And I agree, the rules need to be redone and simplified, regardless of whether or not council is removed or not. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 12:33, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Fine, I'll support Council being removed as long as a new system is placed in. But I hardly think you need my vote to win this Nalleh - the support outnumbers the oppose anyway xD *~*~ishni*~*~talk 12:35, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Still, if your vote doesn't reflect your opinion, you're wasting a vote. This is a chance for everyone on the wiki to have a voice, use yours. -- Nalyd Renrut - Legendary Snipe! Master of epic pwnage 13:08, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

If all you guys want to see is more non-Council users join in on the meetings and watch them as they take place, then of course we'll allow it. Just please don't remove Council. You'll all be making a horrible mistake. --"Ezekiel! What's up, man?" "I think I see a bird!" 02:38, July 1, 2011 (UTC)